davidw: If we are going to talk about 'branding', one of the things that I think we should look at is how much to push the 'fast/easy' stuff. That's definitely something in our favor right now, but it also has a 'cheap' connotation ("if it's fast and easy, it must be ok for quick hacks, but not for quality stuff!").
We should look at how to change the perception of Tk as something for whipping up a GUI to something that can also be used for a very professional, serious GUI.
Posted at Aug 07/2003 07:21 AM:
davidw: Why the negative references to "OSS weenies" and "OSS script kiddies"? I especially don't get it because Tcl itself is Open Source Software. You are never going to be able to comunicate very well with whoever these other OSS people are if you disparage and look down on them. They'll pick up on that and go where they're welcome.
If you genuinely want to improve Tk, you have to be honest, and that means making fair comments about other groups. Sure, gtk is a pain in the ass to code with, but they and Qt were the ones to dethrone Motif, not Tk. They are the ones giving Linux a shot at the desktop, not Tk. They are the ones we have to play catch-up to in terms of available widgets, not vice versa. They may be nothing new or exciting, but they are crowding out Tk, and if you want to reverse that, you better figure out why, and where to invest your limited resources.
Posted at Aug 07/2003 08:09 AM:
Steve Landers: David, it wasn't meant to be derogatory - I went to the Linux Australia conference as you know, and that's what people were calling themselves (along with supergeek :-)). And then there is
http://www.nata2.info/humor/flash/switchlinux3.swf
But to go after gtk and Qt is missing the point. For better or worse, the battle is over and Microsoft has won. At least, in the minds of those who pay the bills.
This project is attempting to recognise that, and to give Tk a look and feel that is consistent with Win* (and, hopefully other platforms as well) whilst still adhering to good HCI principles.
And, if I were to chase after a Unix desktop it most certainly wouldn't be KDE or Gnome - it would be MacOSX. But, as I said, that battle isn't worth fighting now.
Of course, I'd be happy for us to go after themes and other more "advanced eye candy" - but only after the foundation of Win* l&f is available "out of the box".
If you want a more "robust" point of view, have a look at http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Stupidity.html
Posted at Sep 11/2003 11:02 AM:
DGP: I don't understand these marketing
terms well enough to know where this
suggestion belongs, but it seems that
the 15th anniversary of Tk is approaching.
Might be worthwhile to tie in some significant
milestone in this project (release?!) to that
anniversary?
Update As it turns out, one can name just
about any time in the next 2-3 years as Tk's
15th anniversary. (Present: ~15 years since
Tk work began. Up to 2-3 years from now:
~15 years since first release)
Posted at Sep 15/2003 04:02 AM:
Mark: not to put too negative a twist on it, but I'm not sure there'll be too much to really highlight in the next little while...
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